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Televised debate Yushchenko-Yanukovych. Victor Yushchenko’s speeches and answers

11:08, 21 December 2004 // "Press Service of Viktor Yushchenko"

Victor Yushchenko’s opening address

Dear people of Ukraine! First of all I would like to congratulate you on the beginning of winter holidays. Yesterday we celebrated a wonderful Christian holiday – St. Nicholas Day. I am convinced that St. Nicholas visited every Ukrainian family, every Ukrainian home. I am convinced the people of Ukraine were particularly good this year. They stood up for their freedom, for their right to live in an honest and democratic country. This is why I hope St. Nicholas brought presents to every person regardless of his or her age.

Millions of people watching these debates today wonder: why these two guys are on TV again, why they are debating again, were the previous debates not enough to elucidate the main economic and foreign-policy issues Ukraine faces? I am convinced that there was only one reason that brought us here today – he fact that the results of the 21 November voting were stolen. My opponent and his team stole over three million votes. Now we have to talk about the events of the 21 November and why the people of Ukraine cried out so loudly in the squares throughout the country. What forced them to take to the streets? I am convinced that when we are talking about the total falsification we are talking not only about the fact that half a million votes were thrown in in Donetsk after 08:00PM after the voting was supposed to be over, not only about the fact that 350 thousand votes were thrown out in Mykolayiv because of the fraudulent use of the absentee ballots. And, it is not even the fact that 1.3 million votes in Ukraine were stolen with the help of absentee ballots. Dear friends, those were attempts to steal your future. That is the main thing. However, we can thank the parliament and the Supreme Court that have made the political and the legal decisions and put an end to these violations. As a result, the government, which was the main source of falsifications, was dismissed. The CEC was dismissed because it allowed falsifications to take place. The Prosecutor General has resigned as well as the head of the National Bank, the head of my opponent’s headquarters. 170 criminal cases opened against the heads of the district and territorial election commissions will also weigh in with an argument in the process. Furthermore, we must remember that the main moving forces behind this process were not parties but average citizens that did not want to live in a country run by a criminal government, in a country with 55% of economy in the shadow and working for just three-four families. The people did not resign themselves to biased court system; they wanted to gain freedom of speech instead of being subjected to temniks of the Presidential Administration. The people said that they did not want to live in a close corporation named “Corporation of Yanukovych, Kuchma, Medvedchuk.” Dear friends, I love everybody – those who came with orange colours and those who came with blue. The orange flag is victorious, however, and even when “Shakhtar” [football club from Donetsk] donned orange uniform, it started winning.

Yushchenko’s answers to Yanukovych

“You are Kuchma-3; you are his best child”

While asking the first question to Victor Yanukovych, Victor Yushchenko expressed surprise at the fact that the “consistent” Victor Yanukovych suddenly started criticizing the government even though he was not used to doing it. “You are the government-backed candidate. You were nominated in the cabinet of President Kuchma. You are Kuchma-3; you are his best child. You spoke about the president today. Do not spit into the well from which you still might have to drink. This country was covered with your billboards on which you were called “reliable and consistent,” he said.

Yushchenko wanted to know why Yanukovych, if he was so consistent, raised payments only prior to the elections:

“You submitted a budget for 2004 in which the minimum salary was set at 237 hryvnyas [a month] and then set the minimum salary at 205 hryvnyas. Then, a month before the elections, you provided for bonus payments to pensioners but forgot about it while drafting the 2005 budget and did not provide a single kopek for raising salaries. I have a budget here so please find there at least one kopek from the increases pensioners were getting since 1 September of this year.

We will certainly correct this injustice at the parliament and Ukrainian pensioners will get the kind of pensions in 2005 they receive now. We will find money that has not been set aside for that. However, Victor Fedorovych, I would like to understand the nature of your mistakes: whether they were mistakes caused by the lack of professionalism or by trying to cheat the voters?”

“It is time for the Ukrainian president to be elected in Ukraine instead of Moscow”

Answering a question concerning the influence of the West-backed civic organization on the outcome of the elections, Yushchenko said: “I thought you would ask openly whether I was financed by either Russia or America. I can honestly say that these hands have not stolen a single thing; I have never taken anything that did not belong to me.

I know that one has to pay a steep price for sinning. I have not been convicted; I lead an honest life and it is a disgrace to me to be asked about the American valenki.

Just look into the eyes of the people that stood in Maidan. Do those eyes say that those people came out [for money]? There where people there who were earning more in a day than my entire election campaign because they were standing for dignity and against criminal government.

This is why I agree on one thing – it is time for the Ukrainian president [to be elected in Ukraine instead of Moscow].

And those trips either to Moscow or to the Crimea are a disgrace for any candidate from the independent Ukraine. The same goes for Moscow, Brussels, and Warsaw.

I am convinced that we have a country that can choose its president on its own. If some additional laws need to be passed to achieve that, I’ll agree to that. The main thing is to ensure that votes are not stolen.

“The integrity of Ukraine is sacred and is to be respected by every politician”

Answering the opponent’s question concerning the division of Ukraine, Yushchenko said:

“Ukraine has been united since the times of St. Volodymyr. In its unity it survived Bohdan Khmelnitskiy, Ivan Mazepa, and Pavlo Skoropadskiy. The integrity of Ukraine is sacred and is to be respected by every politician. And, when a politician is losing, he ought not to run to the Eastern Ukraine into two regions and play the card of separatism, federalism, or try creating a “Southeastern Autonomous Republic. Attempts to build such [southeastern autonomies] were made by many politicians before you and failed. I am deeply convinced that Ukraine is united and that it is impossible to divide it either for Yanukovych or for Yushchenko, or for any other contemporary politician. I am convinced that there are no grounds today to say that Ukraine is divided based on language, religion, or orientation east or west – these are political difference we can easily overcome.”

Yushchenko also stressed the importance of joint actions to resolve conflicts via political means:

“Politics exist for political parties and political leaders to be able to sit down and talk about the nature of conflicts and agree on the ways out of those conflicts. The political force headed by me is honest. It is always open to dialogue; it has been open to dialogue since coming into the parliament in 2002. I wish other political forces were as open. We ought to appear together in Donetsk, Luhansk, in Lviv, and Ternopil. We ought to speak and listen to each other and, I am convinced, we will find answers that will not scare neither East nor West.”

Commenting on Victor Yanukovych’s tactic of avoiding answering the question about the privatization of “Kryvorizhstal” during the debates, Victor Yushchenko noted: “It is possible to speak nicely; I asked you a question and you are telling me about the weather… Excuse me, but I would ask you to take that into consideration. It is necessary for our discourse to be specific.”

Yushchenko underscored: “Victor Fedorovych, what divides us? – The difference between word and deed. Why does not this country have a new president? – Because of you! Because you engaged in falsifications. The transit server was not located in my office but at the Presidential Administration, where your Klyuyev and Medvedchuk were lying to the nation for ten days.”

“Victor Fedorovych, You are a god-fearing man, right? So remember – one must not steal!”

Answering his opponent’s question concerning the legality and the advisability of the changes made in the election legislation, Victor Yushchenko said:

“I really want you, Victor Fedorovych, to hear me. I do really want it but have not succeeded thus far. What was the problem of 21 November? The problem was that you stole three million votes. I am speaking figuratively – either you personally, or Klyuyev, or Medvedchuk with Klyuyev, or the three of you. This is offensive to 47 million people. That was why the entire World started talking about it since only criminals act that way. If we want changes in Ukraine, we first need to have honest elections. Who ensures honest elections? – The government first of all. It was within your power to ensure honest elections but you resorted to manipulations.

Now about the Verkhovna Rada behavior. Please tell me what Verkhovna Rada decisions are not political? All decisions made by political institutions, including the Verkhovna Rada, are political decisions, made through laws or resolutions as it used to be.

Next. The Verkhovna Rada and the politicians have drawn a conclusion. That conclusion is not a precursor to the legal ruling but only the opinion of the politicians that there have been gross violations of the existing legislation and that the [Central Election] Commission ought to be dismissed and the second round ought to be rerun. That was the position of the Verkhovna Rada, of the internal analytical center, of the parties, and coalitions.

Victor Fedorovych, it is a disgrace for me when votes are stolen. You are a god-fearing man, aren’t you? So remember – one must not steal. One must not steal factories, one must not steal votes. Three million votes have been stolen and you knew quite well that half a million votes were being stolen in Donetsk after 08:00PM when voting was supposed to be over and when the first reports were being filed. You had the right to say: I do not need stolen votes but you did not do it.

Now another thing. The Supreme Court decision was made in the legal field and neither of the former prime ministers is entitled to comment on that. Let us learn to respect the Supreme Court. The ruling it has made is legal so let us draw conclusions. Let us not say that this institution is right and that one is wrong. You have allowed gross violations – election fraud.

And now back to the question you asked, Victor Fedorovych. The people of Ukraine have the right to vote regardless of being an invalid or not. The [new] law provides for the preferential treatment of the people of the first disability group: [those people can vote at home]. As for all the other disability groups, the law says that it is the responsibility of the district and territorial election committees to provide for transportation for those people so that they are able to vote in a regular manner. What is so cynical here, what is incorrect and disrespectful of the interests of average people? Everybody has an opportunity [to vote]. However, let us no forget that if the absentee ballots and voting at home works the way they did in the Mykolayiv region, we will never have honest elections. Period.

Victor Yushchenko reminded Yanukovych that it was the “Regions of Ukraine” Party, which has always supported Yanukovych, that nominated Hennadiy Vasyl’yev the Prosecutor General. The latter has fired close to two thousand employees of the prosecutorial offices – almost every fifth employee – over the past year and replaced them with “his own” people from the Donetsk region. Seventeen key positions in the office of the Prosecutor General have been replaced by Vasyl’yev’s people. The effectiveness of work of the Office of the Prosecutor General has dropped significantly, though; it did not ensure lawfulness, including during the elections; it did not solve any resonant crimes. “I remember Heorhiy Gongadze’s mother begging you and the Prosecutor General at a rally to do one thing: to give back the body of her son to be able to bury him,” added Yushchenko. “I would like you to comment on this example. Is this your staff policy?!” he asked a rhetoric question.

Answering Victor Yanukovych’s remark on the freedom of speech in Ukraine, Victor Yushchenko said: “These hands have never stolen. You have an illusion that one has to steal while sitting on a sack of money. I have never been convicted; I am an honest banker and an honest person.

Second. If you have complaints concerning the voting in the Ternopil region, turn to law.

Our complaints were serious. Half a million votes have been stolen in Donetsk. Who has done that and why that person has not been brought to account yet? These are clear questions.

Then there is the matter of the electronic information, which was not sent directly to the CEC as the law requires but to criminals at the Presidential Administration who manipulated the results to keep you ahead in the presidential elections. Are we talking about honest elections? You think you were cheated on November 21? Victor Fedorovych, you must understand that you and your team have stolen three million votes. That was what brought the people out to the streets. People in the streets, however, did not come out only to protest against the events of the 21 December and against being cheated by the government. They have had enough of the criminal government in the country that does not have the freedom of speech, no independent courts and economy in the shadow. If you do not have the protection of the Cabinet of Ministers or the Tax authorities, or the Presidential Administration, you have no future in business.

I am surprised by your opposition and by the fact that you claim to be the follower of Chornovil. I forget, however, which one – Taras Chornovil or V’yacheslav Maksymovych Chornovil. You change so fast I cannot follow you. I would like to ask you one thing, however, which concerns the freedoms you would like to preach. The freedom of speech. I am convinced that an individual that has objective and honest information is a person that is better armed and can be a better judge on various issues, including political ones.”

Victor Yushchenko noted the “peculiarities” of Victor Yanukovych’s economic discussion. Addressing his opponent the leader of the “Power of the People” coalition said: “You cannot listen and, this is why, cannot change your position. You are like wood grouse at the display ground, singing your song and hiding behind voters while I am talking about the government, which is taking away opportunities from my people because it is criminal, literally.

This is the government that has given rise to shadow economy in which the entire wealth is divided among the three-four families and which you are now praising. Victor Fedorovych, don’t you know that the GDP growth at certain periods of your governing reached 12% but only 2% of that growth was directed into the budget. Don’t you know where did the difference go? At the same time, Ukrainian oligarchs have become two-three times richer than they were two-three years ago. When we are talking about the rate of economic growth, it must be understood that it benefits three-four families and not average citizens. You have to account to 47 million people how to “eat” 12% of the “economic wonder” you are talking about.

Only fair economy, only economy with a social face can provide answers to the things you are talking about. And, if you, a professional, are thinking of ways to raise the social standards of living for pensioners, educators, doctors, officers, there is one simple rule: let us engage in honest politics in the new year [instead of just making elections promises]. Let us not raise wholesale prices for October, which would amount to 25% for the year.

Just look at what you are leaving for the new government to deal with. You are leaving behind 10 billion of unpaid VAT reimbursements. Unpaid not to Medvedchuk or Surkis – everything is fine with them – you have paid everything back to them and to your clan. You have not reimbursed VAT for medium and small businesses that are raising Ukraine and holding it up on their shoulders. You have left pensioners 5 billion in the whole; you have collected 7.5 billion in taxes for the preliminary period. And this means caring for Ukraine? Victor Fedorovych, this is no way to take care of Ukraine. This is manipulation.”

Finally, Victor Yushchenko noted: “Victor Fedorovych, it seams you have claimed the role of Gapon the pope [a controversial revolutionary of 1904-05, involved in organizing a march of workers on 9 January 1905 in St. Petersburg, which was to present a petition to the Tsar but was put down by force. The date is known in history as “bloody Sunday”]. You are creating a division with your position and you know quite well that there are wonderful people in Donetsk and Luhansk regions, good citizens and none of them think about our language differences, religious differences, different choices, and history. Nothing divides us, Victor Fedorovych.

Yushchenko’s questions to Yanukovych

1. The whole Ukraine was covered with your billboards stating that you’re reliant and consistent. You submitted the year 2004 budget [for the parliamentary approval] with the minimum salary set at 237 hryvnyas and, a week later, withdrew it and changed it to 205 hryvnyas. After that, a month prior to the elections, you give a supplement to pensioners but forget about this supplement when forming the 2005 budget, the project of which does not provide a single kopek to pay higher pensions.

We will certainly fix this in the parliament and Ukrainian pensioners will get pensions they’re receiving now. We will find funds that have not been planned and that lead to budget deficit.

But I would still like to understand, Viktor Fedorovych, the nature of your mistakes – are those the mistakes caused by the lack of professionalism or is this just a blatant fraud of the electorate?

2. When I came to power as prime minister foreign debt was the topmost problem despite all the social debts. That was the noose that [put the country before] a default. That was why the team that was in government and the one in the parliament agreed in the year 2000 that there would be no more deficit budgets. This takes opportunities away from our children.

Tell me, have you consciously submitted the next year’s budget that has the highest deficit level over the lat seven years, given that we have the highest rate of economic growth. Is this professionalism? Is this a consistency? What kind of paradox is this?

3. You were explaining that 3 million hryvnyas were lacking to set the minimum salary at 237 hryvnyas starting on 1 January of this year; at the same time, however, “Kryvorizhstal” – plant built by three to five generations of people from Russia and Kazakhstan, was stolen. And, as it turns out, you’ve received one third of the plant’s shares. And how come the better price given by the Russians and the Indians is 5 billion higher than the one given by the president’s son-in-law, your ally. This is the very sum that is lacking to pay the salaries?

4. I am ready to repeat today that the main obstacle for Ukraine’s development is the criminal regime of Kuchma, Medvedchuk and Yanukovych. There is enough evidence to support this statement.

Still, I would like to ask you one thing only: being a consistent politician [you claim to be], are you ready to look into people’s eyes and apologize for calling them [“swine”] and later, as I remember, “orange rats.” Even if we talk about half a million people, it is still Ukraine. If we talk about 10 million, it is also Ukraine. Why do you abominate your opponents and characterize them in ways that never call for consolidation? Is this a position of a consistent politician?

5. Viktor Fedorovych, I had no wish to ask this question but, since I hear the words of the new oppositionist, I want to understand whom you oppose, because it’s important from the political point of view. If you’re I n opposition to Kuchma, I wonder, why he does not dismiss you, according to the Ukrainian law?

Are you in opposition to the new first vice-premier, whom you’d recommended and who was approved by the president? Or, maybe, you’re in opposition to the regional administration heads with whom you conduct forums, regardless of which regions we speak about – Central, Western or Eastern?

Kuchma along with his team – Medvedchuk, Surkis, and Pinchuk have nominated you as their common candidate. Sixty days goes by and you turn your back to them and say you’re an oppositionist. Then act like one. You need to [make up you mind as to which side to take].

6. When you are talking about your freedom of speech commitment, I take a snapshot of your region. At the same time you’re talking about the freedom of speech, not only TV “Channel-5” and TV “Era” are switched off but also TV “1+1.”

We will soon watch only the TV “Ukraine” all over in Ukraine because that is your channel, and because you want 48 million to live according to the same moral as yours. The broadcasting of the fight of our outstanding boxer Vitaliy Klichko was suspended in the very same regions I mentioned above. The only reason for that was an orange handkerchief attached to his boxing-trunks.

Now we are saying that you have not exerted pressure on TV channels, on the information space of the corresponding territory, have not organized election fraud, have not manipulated the electronic transfers between the Central Election Commission and the regional election commissions.

Viktor Fedorovych, please tell me the truth, maybe it is the Supreme Court that is lying and you are telling the truth?

Victor Yushchenko’s closing address

Dear countrymen, dear people. This election campaign saw a lot of emotions and a lot of words characterizing domestic and foreign issues said at public meetings and through mass media. Dear friends, 26 December – the day of elections – is at hand. There will be life after 26 December and we will be looking for understanding on one key issue, which has become the stumbling block for the people of Ukraine – the unity of Ukraine.

I was born in the East, just a few kilometers from the Russian border and was brought up in accordance with the morals of my father, soldier of the Soviet Army, frontier guard; I was a frontier guard too. He was imprisoned in Auschwitz, Dachau, and Buchenwald. I was brought up in accordance with his morals and his values. Thanks to him I learned to love my Motherland – Ukraine. So today, circumstances and emotions aside, when somebody somewhere is raising an issue and raising hand against the sacred [and says that] there are three sorts of people in Ukraine, that Ukraine ought to be a federation, that, perhaps, it is necessary to create a Southeastern Republic, I promise to you, I will say about other things later. When I travel through the Sumy region to visit my mother I barely pass a field that does not have a burial mound. There lie our men, our grand and great-grandfathers that fought for the sovereign Ukraine. I am calling on all the politicians to beware: not a single word about division or federalization must sound. This is one gift we can make to Ukraine on the eve of the New Year.

Next. I have noted some of the remarks made by Victor Fedorovych today and would like to provide more detailed answers to them.

Regional policy: First. When I am president, each region will have its place based on its potential. Second. No Russian-language schools will be closed. Third. Nobody will divide Ukraine into three sorts as it was done on posters hung all over Kyiv and all over Ukraine by the government-backed forces, by the way. The Crimea will always belong to the people of the Crimea and to Ukraine instead of some separate nationality and nobody will, Victor Fedorovych, surround Luhansk and Donetsk with barbed wire; you are a serious person so do not repeat these myths.

Nobody will close a single Christian church of any denomination. Dear friends, there are 250 religions and all people have their own road to God and every person has his or her own church. Tell me, who can tell anybody which way to go? This is everybody’s own responsibility because everyone has his or her own cross to bear. We reassure you that no church will be persecuted, no church, let me stress that, because we live in the third millennium.

Next. Nobody will roll Odesa’s “7th kilometer” (Odesa’s biggest market) under asphalt. Nobody will drive Sebastopol to its knees. Every Ukrainian citizen will have ability to speak whichever language is more natural to him or her.

And the last thing. I am running for the presidency to be able say to all those who work and live honestly: “Peace to all of you! Peace to your homes, your families, your houses! Good luck!”

 

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